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VETERANS FOR KERRY - SEN. MAX CLELAND
Senator Max Cleland spoke at a rally today at near Minnesota's Veteran Memorials, along with Swift Boat veteran Wade Sanders and a marine named Andrew who served in Iraq. Cleland, along with John McCain and now John Kerry, is a decorated war hero who's patriotism and integrity have been attacked by the Republican slime machine. Today, he and Minnesota veterans took the kid gloves off. I urge everyone to set aside some time to hear what they have to say:
Sen. Max Cleland speaking about Bush's failure and Kerry's honor [Quicktime, 38 MB, 20 minutes of enlightenment]
Sen. Max Cleland - Audio only [Quicktime, 4.6 MB]
"They say this campaign's gonna define John Kerry. John Kerry was defined 35 years ago, and so was George Bush." More Cleland quotes below.
"If you wonder why the Band of Brothers is gathering around John Kerry [...] these are the very Americans that have committed most to this country. You cannot create more enemies than friends in the world and call this country safer."
"This young fighter, he went to Iraq, he was proud to do his duty. [...] But then he realized other forces were in charge. Forces that were not allowing the young men and women to do their jobs, forces that did not provide the proper body armor or the proper equipment, the proper strategy to win. And now we have this young man, back from his war, of his generation, asking the question: Why?"
"John Kerry, before he went to Vietnam, was asking 'Why?' While he was there, he was asking, 'Why?' He came back from Vietnam, he continued to ask the question 'Why?' That's the kind of Commander-in-Chief I want. I want a Commander-in-Chief, before we send young Americans to war to die, I want that Commander-in-Chief to ask why. And be able to answer the American people and tell the truth."
Iraq vet Andrew: "Why did the Bush/Cheney administration attack [retired Generals Schwarzkopf and Zinni], with more balanced views of the global war on terror, as 'sensitive wimps'? Opting instead to follow the unilateral plan of an effete core of chickenhawk neoconservatives?"
"Max Cleland is a hero. He is a hero because he answered the call to serve his nation overseas at a time when many were seeking deferments [...] It belittles every American war veteran when the Republican attack machine attempts to smear the names of men of honor with lies and misinformation."
August 18, 2004 at 12:51 PM in Current Affairs | Permalink
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Comments
Yaaay Chuck! You are awesome! I can't wait to see the video.
Posted by: Lorika at Aug 18, 2004 4:02:53 PM
I hope my audio isn't horked... i had something set wrong, which I didn't realize until the end of the anti-Bush/pro-Kerry rally outside the Xcel center.
if it is, i'll just make a music video.
Posted by: Chuck at Aug 18, 2004 4:50:50 PM
Honey! Always, ALWAYS check your sound!!
Posted by: Lorika at Aug 18, 2004 7:40:34 PM
It's good. Whew.
I *did* check it, I had headphones on but it was really hard to tell if it was working... plus these affairs are all about shitty PAs and bullhorns to begin with.
Posted by: Chuck at Aug 19, 2004 2:03:03 AM
So... Lemme see if I get this right....
The 5 Veterans who are on Kerry's side are the paragon of virtue and honesty (mostly because they are veterans) but the 250 Veterans who called him unfit to serve are all just slimeballs. (even though they are veterans too)
Man- With reasoning like that I guess I have nothing to say.
Posted by: Joe at Aug 19, 2004 4:45:52 AM
So... Lemme see if I get this right....
Yep... you got it right. Hey, by the way... how many of those 250 knew Kerry, or served on his boat? Just asking... Oh, and also by the way... why is Jerome Corsi a right-wing lunatic? Oh, and one other thing... why is Terry Thurlow a liar?
Just asking...
Posted by: JasonC at Aug 19, 2004 6:34:47 AM
Hey chuck, Still read your post daily, always entertaining and even educational. I have held my breath thru all this nonsense about Vietnam and it's time to blow some steam. My opinion on the vietnam shit is if you were there, you deserve our respect and our condolences, whether you were a cook or a front line fighter. if you weren't there, SHUT THE F UP cause you don't know what you are talking about. Who is the strogest man to lead this nation is the question. I think our choices suck. And remember Chuck what I alwys say, please don't wait for your government to make your life better, your going to have to do that yourself.
Posted by: Scott at Aug 19, 2004 9:41:56 AM
Wake up, Joe. There are a lot more than 5 veterans on Kerry's side. And you know what? They're not getting paid, they're not trying to divide America - they're defending their service and honor against these despicable attacks.
Posted by: Chuck at Aug 19, 2004 11:21:00 AM
Hey there Scott! Feel better now?
I hear you -- if you served, you deserve our respect (or "mad props" as the kids say). I became politicized during the first Gulf War, aka Gulf War Classic. When I realized I could be drafted, I was angry and yes - a little scared. The only kind of gun I can handle is the Grand Theft Auto kind, and even there I suck. Chickenhawk minus the "hawk" leaves me with just plain chicken. Mmm, chicken.
But we're in a different kind of war. Yes, a war on terrorism and on oil-rich countries, but also a fight for the soul and future of our country. To say that only Vietnam vets can talk about Vietnam is just plain wrongheaded, Scott. This is an election, the Vietnam war and the current war are political issues, not just military issues. I'm not only entitled to speak up about why this mudslinging is wrong, I think it's my citizen blogger duty.
People criticize "armchair warriors" for defending this war (and attacking Kerry's military record) when they have not served themselves. I can relate to that criticism, but they're smart people with an opinion, just like me. We all have the right to an opinion and to get "the truth" out there.
You may well discount that opinion if it's coming from a non-veteran. That's fine. That's why, in this post, I'm letting veterans speak for themselves.
Posted by: Chuck at Aug 19, 2004 11:51:53 AM
Chuck, did you see "Hardball" tonight? Un-fricken-believable! I caught it just in time to listen to SVFT [liar] Thurlow say that Kerry intentionally hurt himself to get an "early out" of Vietnam. You can check out the transcript
Posted by: Stacy at Aug 20, 2004 12:48:00 AM
Ah cripes, the link got screwed up. Here is the transcript: Hardball for August 19. Hope this works.
Posted by: Stacy at Aug 20, 2004 12:50:48 AM
Oh man! That's incredible -- thanks for the link!!
Posted by: Chuck at Aug 20, 2004 3:12:57 AM
I personally know vietnam vets for Kerry...
I spoke with both of them last week.
Posted by: charles koeller at Aug 20, 2004 1:55:14 PM
It is high time that Max Cleland set his personal bitterness aside and start acting honorably.
Posted by: JOHN ELLINGSON at Aug 25, 2004 1:37:28 PM
What would the honorable thing to do be, dare I ask? Shut up? Support Bush? Listen to Rush Limbaugh, Mike Savage and Sean Hannity?
Posted by: ryan at Aug 25, 2004 2:23:35 PM
Max Cleland is John Kerrys Cripple and mascott
"I called the media. . . . I said, 'If I take some crippled veterans down to the White House and we chain ourselves to the gates, will we get coverage?' 'Oh, yes, we will cover that.' "--John Kerry, testimony before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, April 22, 1971
"Kerry is sending to Crawford former Sen. Max Cleland of Georgia, a frequent companion of Kerry's on the campaign trail and a fellow Vietnam War veteran who lost three limbs during the war. Cleland . . . will try to deliver a letter protesting the [Swift Boat Veterans for Truth] ads to [President] Bush at his heavily guarded ranch, Kerry aides said."--Reuters, Aug. 25, 2004
Posted by: Tom Tinker at Aug 25, 2004 5:44:57 PM
Man are you guys in for a shock! Seems that the Kerry campaign is now admitting that Kerry's 1st purple heart could have come from an unintentional, self-inflicted wound! It seems that his biography and his diary are at odds with his purple heart citation! Man, it's starting to unravel. I saw it on Drudge, I heard it on Fox. I know, you guys won't believe it until you see it on ABC
He is still eligible for the purple heart, but just goes to show how he embelished his service, like the Christmas in Cambodia. It also goes to bolster the truthfulness of the Swift Boat Vets!
Posted by: Al at Aug 25, 2004 8:30:34 PM
Stacy, you better go re-read that Hardball transcript. Better yet, do a "cut and paste where Thurlow says Kerry "intentionally hurt" himself. Seems like you and Chris Matthews don't understand the definition of "self-inflicted" the term used later in the interview and the term used in the Swift Vets book!
Here is what Thurlow actually said: "THURLOW: Well, what happened is he said that he received an injury due to a mistake he made when he fired an M-79 close aboard and was hit by his own shrapnel. That doesn‘t constitute a Purple Heart. You‘ve got to be injured by hostile fire." A mistake to me indicates accidential, not intentional. (He could still maybe get a purple heart even if self-inflicted)
I know you guys don't like little things like FACTS getting inbetween you and your Bush Bashing, but, I gotta try!
Posted by: Al at Aug 25, 2004 9:03:09 PM
Al, it would be good if you could site your sources, otherwise we just have to assume that you're pulling things from your ass.
Posted by: ryan at Aug 25, 2004 10:51:40 PM
George W. Bush fares poorly when you look at the FACTS, too. Leaving aside what Bush was doing (or indeed who - specifically Nixon's daughter, Tricia) while Kerry was fighting in Vietnam, Bush has been lying about his own military record. He went so far as to claim he was in the Air Force (!):
In his campaign autobiography, he wrote that he had completed his pilot training in 1970 while assigned to an air base in Houston and "continued flying with my unit for the next several years." But as the Boston Globe revealed, he stopped flying during his final 18 months of service in 1972 and 1973. Bush had been grounded after failing to take a flight exam, and had won permission to train with a unit in Alabama where he did no flying. There are no records proving he showed up for duty in Alabama, but Bush has insisted he did.
Putting aside the controversy over Bush's Air National Guard service (or dereliction of duty), there was another instance when Bush clearly did not speak truthfully about his military record. In 1978, Bush, while running for Congress in West Texas, produced campaign literature that claimed he had served in the US Air Force. According to a 1999 Associated Press report, Bush's congressional campaign ran a pullout ad in the Lubbock Avalanche-Journal that declared he had served "in the US Air Force and the Texas Air National Guard where he piloted the F-102 aircraft."
Posted by: Robert McNamara at Aug 25, 2004 10:52:24 PM
Bob Dole's first Purple Heart: "Just a scratch"
No one is better placed than Dole to know how arbitrary are the fortunes of war. It is not surprising to hear John Kerry's wounds belittled by men who have avoided all risk of being wounded. Someday perhaps we will be able to plumb the neuroses of those who avoided Vietnam and have ever after had difficulty living with the choice. But it is surprising to hear Bob Dole doing it. Kerry not hospitalized for his wounds? Bob Dole was not hospitalized for his first Purple Heart either.
From Dole's 1988 autobiography, recalling how his wound was self-inflicted:
"As we approached the enemy, there was a brief exchange of gunfire. I took a grenade in hand, pulled the pin, and tossed it in the direction of the farmhouse. It wasn't a very good pitch (remember, I was used to catching passes, not throwing them). In the darkness, the grenade must have struck a tree and bounced off. It exploded nearby, sending a sliver of metal into my leg -- the sort of injury the Army patched up with Mercurochrome and a Purple Heart."
Posted by: Robert McNamara at Aug 25, 2004 11:09:02 PM
BFD! So the argument here is rather the guy got three purple hearts that were all deserved, a silver and bronze star? Lets see if we take one away Dick Chenny still has more deferments for service? Point is Kerry was there, and doesnt need to look for a barber shop reciept to prove his military service. The swift vets accounts are lies! As some one who served and served in combat I have no reason to even listen to anyone other then the men on Kerry's boat. Anyone else who has ever been there knows that its the man next to you that counts. The man Kerry pulled from the water served in the 5th SFGARBN, and I can tell you now we dont like to say anyone saves one of us! Let alone a squid! So when he say's he was under fire, and only one boat returned to retrieve him, thats fact. John Kerry was the skipper of that boat. So do us all a favor, if you have three purple hearts, a silver star and a bronze star speak up! Otherwise shut up! Your just a little boy with a loud mouth and a key board. The swift vets compromise 230 men of thousands who served in the brow water navy. 232 of which 2 knew or had contact with John Kerry. 232 who's orgonization was started a few months ago by the same media company that tried to smear other vets! The swift vets are simply a bunch of cowards, hell according to them in a war where purple hearts came for free and silver and bronze stars were handed out for nothing these fjckers didnt earn a single one! Maybe they should have been looking for the man overboard instead of running away from a fire fight! John Kerry will be the 44th president of the united states!
Posted by: Topper at Aug 26, 2004 3:58:02 PM
*cheers!*
Posted by: Chuck at Aug 26, 2004 4:56:57 PM
Ryan, are you too lazy to read the posts? Because if you had, it would be totally evident that the source was the Hardball thread that was posted in the message I was responding to.
Posted by: Al at Aug 26, 2004 5:13:09 PM
Topper, just who are you to be telling anyone to shut up. I fought for my right to speak and for my trouble, your man tried to convince America that I was a monster! He also met with the enemy in Paris in 1970 while he was still a Commissioned Officer of the U.S. Navy U.S. Navy Reserve) He double-crossed our POW/MIA families and praised Hanoi for their cooperation! How hipocritical of the left to denegrate Bush for avoiding service in Vietnam, that illegal, immoral war. I would think you guys would priase him for not having killed babies!
BTW, I also fought for your right to speak, so get off your high horse.
Got to find a new tactic to attack the latest Swift Boat ad, one of Kerry's crewmebers (the man who served with him the longest) says in the ad that Kerry is lying about spending Christmas in Cambodia (his fist story repeated many times over the years). He also says that Kerry never went on a secret mission to Cambodia! That of course the 2nd lie told to cover up the 1st lie, thinking that the 2nd lie could never be verified! Admit it, it is all unraveling for your "war hero"
G.W. never made Vietnam a part of any of his campaigns. You guys tried this stuff on him in 2000 and it didn't work. It want work now, try as you may, you will not deflect attention away from John Kerry's lies and distortions.
Do you even know the facts about the "Rasmussen" story? Probably not since the Kerry campaign keeps changing it. There were 5 boats at the scene, with 5 crews. There were plenty of people beside the guys on Kerry's boat that saw what happened. So get your facts straight!
Posted by: Al at Aug 26, 2004 5:36:33 PM
"Man are you guys in for a shock! Seems that the Kerry campaign is now admitting that Kerry's 1st purple heart could have come from an unintentional, self-inflicted wound! It seems that his biography and his diary are at odds with his purple heart citation! Man, it's starting to unravel. I saw it on Drudge, I heard it on Fox. I know, you guys won't believe it until you see it on ABC"
No need to get hostile. I'm just trying to figure out where I can ready what you saw on Drudge and heard on Fox. I went to Drudge after your post and didn't find anything. I was hoping for a link.
Whatever. I'm done responding to your weak verbal diarrhea. Frankly, it's poorly written and sound like the regurgitated slop they play all day on conservative radio.
Posted by: ryan at Aug 26, 2004 5:52:01 PM
Go to fox new and you can watch Major Garrett's report from yesterday: "GARRETT: ....And questions keep coming. For example, Kerry received a Purple Heart for wounds suffered on December 2nd, 1968. But an entry in Kerry's own journal written nine days later, he writes that, quote, he and his crew hadn't been shot at yet, unquote. Kerry's campaign has said it is possible his first Purple Heart was awarded for an unintentionally self-inflicted wound."
Al, it would be good if you could site your sources, otherwise we just have to assume that you're pulling things from your ass.
Posted by: ryan at August 25, 2004 10:51 PM
OK, now just where in there did you mention Drudge or Fox? Here is a littl tip, when you respond to a post and your response does not IMMEDIATELY follow that post, perhaps you should REFER to the post you are responding to. This is realy fairly basic protocol I would think!
Posted by: Al at Aug 26, 2004 6:55:44 PM
Poor Robert, have you really forgotten you stint as Secretary of Defense!
Here is a quote from this site: http://www.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?fsID=160
"The Air National Guard is administered by the National Guard Bureau, a joint bureau of the departments of the Army and Air Force, located in the Pentagon, Washington, D.C. It is one of the seven Reserve components of the United States armed forces that augments the active components in the performance of their missions."
You see, it works like this. You join the Naval Reserve, you go on active duty to learn how to be a sailor, then you go back to your Reserve assignment.
You join the Army reserve, you go on active duty to learn to be a soldier, then yhou go back to your Reserve assignment.
You join the Air National Guard, you go on AIR FORCE active duty to learn to fly airplanes, then you go back to your Air National Guard assignment.
Nice try but get real, your distortions are just too easy to debunk!
Posted by: Al at Aug 26, 2004 7:16:55 PM
Clearly you didn't follow any of the links I provided for you, Al. Afraid of learning something?
---
The Air Force says that Air National Guard members are considered 'guardsmen on active duty' while receiving pilot training. They are not, however, counted as members of the overall active-duty Air Force.
Anyone in the Air National Guard is always considered a guardsmen and not a member of the active-duty Air Force, according to an Air Force spokeswoman in the Pentagon. A National Guard member may be called to active duty for pilot training or another temporary assignment and receive active-duty pay at the time, but they remain Guard members.
The AP report said, "It may be a question of semantics." But today I checked with two spokespersons for the US Air Force, and each confirmed that an active-duty member of the Air National Guard is not considered a member of the US Air Force. "If a member of the Air National Guard is in pilot training," says Captain Cristin Lesperance of the US Air Force media relations office, "they would remain on the Guard books. They would be counted as Guard, not as an active-duty Air Force member."
Posted by: Robert McNamara at Aug 26, 2004 7:24:44 PM
You guys aren't anti-Bush are you?
Posted by: Gene at Aug 26, 2004 7:25:04 PM
Yes, if the Air National Guard unit is called to active duty, it is still the Air National Guard. Of course the Air Force still considers trainees as Guardsmen, but I promise you Robert, when you go active duty to be trained as a pilot, you go to an Air Force Base and your check comes from the Air Force! So find something else to smear Bush with, this dog "won't hunt"!
Posted by: Al at Aug 27, 2004 11:23:51 AM
Robert, typical Democrat smear against Bob Dole! I doubt seriously that you are a vet or have ever known many. Most vets do not talk about there wartime experiences and most do NOT brag about them. To quote from YOUR link: "Dole doesn't talk much about his wartime exploits, beyond his references to the grievous wounds he suffered and his long, painful course of rehabilitation." Those of us who served understand Bob Dole being humble about his 1st purple heart and playing it down! Contrast that to John Kerry "reporting for duty" and having his "band of brothers" with him!
Want to make some snide remark about his next purple heart and perhaps compare that to John Kerry?
It is not surprising to hear John Kerry's wounds belittled by men who have avoided all risk of being wounded. Someday perhaps we will be able to plumb the neuroses of those who avoided Vietnam and have ever after had difficulty living with the choice.
Strange, the Swift Boat vets served in Vietnam and Bob Dole was too old, just who are you refering to? Perhaps Bill Clinton? He is certainly one of thse who avoided Vietnam! Of course I'm sure he has no problem living with the fact that someone else may have died in his place!
Posted by: Al at Aug 27, 2004 7:40:41 PM
